Online MPA Webinar: Managing Diversity in the Modern Workplace

Find out more about the importance of managing and fostering diversity in the modern workplace.

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Josh Fedwell: Good afternoon, Ladies and Gentlemen thank you very much for joining us today. Today we’re with the University of San Francisco’s online in Masters of Public Administration program special topic webinar, on managing diversity in the modern workplace. My name is Josh Fedwell; I actively work with the school of Management at the University of San Francisco to assist students like you, who are interested in looking into the online MPA program. Before we kick-off the presentation I’ll just give you guy a quick overview of some of the webinar support tools that are going to be available during this presentation. If you have any questions that you’d like to ask, and feel free to ask questions during the webinar, please use the Q&A chat box in the top left hand side of your screen. Feel free to ask questions throughout the webinar session. We will have a Q&A session dedicated towards the end of the topic presentation today. But again feel free to ask any questions today and we’ll certainly come back to them.

If you need any technical help there is a little technical assistance button located in the bottom left hand side of your screen. We do have resource list things like the program website and some useful program tools available on the top right hand side. And if you’d like to email a copy of this particular recording to yourself or a friend feel free to use the email a friend box on the right hand side. Ok. I’d now like to introduce the guest speakers for today’s webinar. Our first guest speaker is associate director of the online programs, Dr. Timothy Loney. Dr. Loney, would you like to introduce yourself and say hello and tell us a bit about yourself?

Dr. Timothy Loney: Yes, hi everyone it’s good to have you with us today, here at the University of San Francisco and give us an opportunity to tell you a little bit about our program. And also to hear from Dr. Richard Johnson who is doing some great work in the area of diversity. In terms of my background I of course direct the online program; I’m also an instructor in the program. And I’ve got a number of decades of work, primarily as a manager in various federal agencies, and managing a number of city government programs. And as a consultant primarily to state, local county and a number of non-profit organizations. Thank you.


Josh Fedwell: Wonderful, thanks Dr. Loney. And as Dr. Loney mentioned we do have a very special guest with us today I’d like to actually introduce the speaker of today’s topic, associate professor, Dr. Richard Greggory Johnson III. Dr. Johnson would you also like to say hello to everyone and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Johnson III: Yes good afternoon I hope that everyone is doing well, and welcome to this wonderful webinar, greetings to Josh and of course to my dear friend and colleague Dr. Loney. I am in my fifth year at the University of San Francisco, as a professor in the school of management. And prior to this I was a professor at the University of Vermont for eleven years, teaching in the areas of management, diversity and the culture of competence. This is a field that I love. I love the field of public administration and policy. And hopefully some of you if not all of you will feel the same way, if not after this webinar, than certainly after getting more information about the program at USF, thank you.

Josh Fedwell: Fantastic, thanks Dr. Johnson, ok so without any further ado I think we should get straight into the main presentation today. So Dr. Johnson if you’d like to take it away? Managing Diversity in the Modern Workplace. Thanks Dr. Johnson.

Dr. Johnson III: Ok great thanks Josh. Ok, so first I’m going to just tell the potential students, audience, about a book I just ahead published by Peter Lang, this book deals with China and the new realities for China in terms of Social justice. So if you’re interested in learning more about this, you’re more than welcome to pick up a copy if you like, or via excerpts on the web and so forth. But it’s a great read if you’re interested in China and some of the new realities around human rights that China will be facing. Now moving on to Cultural Competence, cultural competence is certainly not a new phenomenon, it has come out of the works on social equity which was started by Dr. George Fredrickson during the 1960s. And that sub field, Public Administration is called social equity, so there for I and a few other colleagues are called Social Equity scholars, in which we dove into issues such as cultural competence and human rights and so forth.


But in terms of the purposes of this webinar cultural competence is generally regarded as the five important reasons that are listed on your slide, the first one starting with the reality of demographics, culture competence is transformative, culture competence promotes understanding in interactive communication, that are solutions to complex organizational problems, and certainly cultural competence expands one’s learning style.

Moving on to demographics, we’re seeing a great shift in terms of racial ethics demographics here in the United States, as we all know the United States was once upon a time regarded as a historically white environment and that’s actually been shifting, certainly over the last couple of decades, but we will see that greater shift in years to come. Certainly as predicted by the peer research center, and others, Georgetown Research Center and other Research Centers are kind of on the same page with this. In terms of the ethnic, racial population shifts that will happen. So as we can see on the slide, just very carefully if we’re looking at 2050, which is on the right hand side of your slide, we see that the African-American population generally will stay about the same, the Asian population will rise significantly the biggest bump we will see is in the Hispanic population. I’m sure this is not news to many of you, as the media as we poured in on this now.

Certainly we will see a lot more international, or foreign born individuals and finally the age range 65 and older will significantly rise too. Primarily due to better health care and just other measures that will keep people living longer and certainly healthier lives. Again just in terms of some additional demographics, one of the terms we use, is called “ALANA” ALANA basically stands for, and ALANA is an acronym, African-American, Latino/Latina, Asian and Native American. And this is a term that actually came out of the student of _____, field back east, but now is being used around the country. And it’s a way to get away from the term Minority. If you hear someone say, minority then they probably aren’t as up to date with what is going on in the country as one would hope, people still use it though. It probably is not the most appropriate term to use.


But nonetheless we see that the ALANA population, population of color is another term we use, will increase within the workforce over the next, what we’re seeing at now, certainly we will see it in the 20s and so forth. Also we’re going to see a huge shift in the Baby-Boomer population. Again this goes back to that slide, 65 or older even though Baby-Boomers are defined as those who were born between 1946 and sort of the early part of the 1960s. We will find a great deal of those populations, again as predicted by several research organizations, roughly about 78 million or so. A great deal of the white-collar eligible or eligible people who are working white-collar jobs, they will be retiring and will be replaced by ALANA workers.

Cultural competence, managing diversity in all its forms, in today’s workforce. And the term diversity doesn’t pack as much punch as it once did. Because people are using it in all types of arenas. Therefore we tried to replace the term diversity with cultural competence or a term like that. Certainly diversity is still being used, but not as much as it once was. And when we talk specifically about diversity we are talking about race and ethnicity, gender and gender identity, sexual incaution, social classes and disability. Generally speaking the protected classes as defined by the US is how we define that. There, probably are certainly a couple more that we could add to that list, but those are generally what we’re talking about.


The top five reasons for cultural competence is important again as we just mentioned the reality of demographics and cultural competence is transformative and again we just actually covered this particular piece of it, so we are going to hop over to cultural competence.

Federal legislation requires cultural competence to receive federal assistance by an extensive literature on delivery of health services, _____ and immigrant communities. So there are a number of measures of which the Federal Government has already put in place those agencies or municipalities receiving federal funds must be culturally competent. Right, certainly the question is, how do you get there and what does that mean?

So therefore, according to and this is just one example that you have before you. Cultural Competence as defined by the sort of mental health services and other human response services that deal with people. You know we’re talking about the protection of, and the respect of individuals and what they come to the table with. Perhaps one of the most telling groups or telling pieces of research came out of the Tilford Group. Several years ago, which was at that time, and it still is considered ground breaking. The Tilford Group did their research particularly at the Kansas State University, which is where this came out of. Where they wanted their students and faculty and staff, to be culturally competent. And they set about a deal, a four year piolet program trying to horn in on the skills that, specifically a student would need before he/she graduates from Kansas State. And that has actually been a model used around the country. Certainly it’s a fair amount of research I use in my own research and in my classes as well.

Moving on to, again, I’m going to skip that. And we’re going to go to Cultural Intelligence. The global workforce requires individuals to be sensitive to different cultures, and to be interactive, and to interact appropriately with people from different cultures. And this is one of the reasons I always suggest to my students, doing papers on different countries, where appropriate and different cultures as well. And as well, traveling I know a number of you online have had study abroad experiences. And those types of things really work, because they do add to your understanding of Cultural Competence and cultural awareness. Tan, who is one of my favorite colleagues, describes cultural intelligence, in three different ways. Cultural strategic thinking, thinking solves your problems in particular ways, motivational, being energized and wants persistence in one’s actions, and behavioral, acting in certain ways.


So moving on again, I’m just trying to give you a sense of some of the scholars that have been thinking and writing about cultural competence. One might think that cultural competence is something that, again it’s a relatively new phenomenon in that there’s not much to it. And actually cultural competence goes across all fields and again has been around for several decades in different iterations. Certainly Thomas and Inkson, See cultural competence as focusing on the culture and quotation of the followers Chin and Gaynor. Again I won’t belabor this point, because, again these scholars are still considered some of the foremost thinkers in the field and they all kind of believe that cultural competence gets at the same point, of indeed understanding of different cultures and where people are coming from. And this notion of color-blindness. Many of us on this call have heard the term; I try to be color blind. Well that was a nice thing to say back in the day, but it really is inappropriate today, because what we do know is that, to be color-blind is sort of a misguided thought. Again a nice thing to say but what it does is that it discounts what an individual brings to the table, in terms of their race or their gender or their orientation or what have you.

So you don’t find as many people saying that they’re color-blind in the 21st century. But it certainly what a big thing in the 20th century. But Dr. Sue, again one of my favorite colleagues has written extensively on cultural competence and raises the three questions that you see on your screen, addressing characteristics of competency and the types of knowledge you should have. So for example one of the questions that I always get from my graduate students when I teach on this topic, is , well professor Johnson, are we expected to know all cultures, well that’s not the point of cultural competence.


Culture competence, suggests that you have an awareness of different cultures and that are different from your own. SO there’s no way that anyone can know all cultures form around the globe. As nice as that would be but of course that’s not realistic so culture competence recognizes that, and just says that you have again, this understanding that cultures maybe very different from your own, and they actually may be the same in a number of ways.

So moving on to culture competence for public managers. And actually, I put a plug in, there’s a book that Dr. Al Borrego and myself wrote, specifically on culture competence for public administrators, in came out in 2011. And has been used around the country. The book is put out by Taylor & Francis. IT’s one of the first books to specifically address cultural competence for public managers. And so, in the book we talk about a number of things, one of the key things we talk about is individuals who are biracial. Biracial individuals have not been given a lot of tension in this country. And they have a culture all of themselves, regardless of the ethnic or racial breakdown that the person has, but often times they’re expected to be placed into a box. Like on the sensors. I think the sensors have just now started putting a box, that says, multi-race or biracial, but prior to that you had to put just one. Which of course leaves a part of someone’s culture out?

Ok, I’m going to actually, Josh I don’t know how much time I have left, could you provide that for me please.


Josh Fedwell: Sure Dr. Johnson, you’ve got about six or seven minutes left.

Dr. Johnson III: Ok wow, well the perspective students on the call will just have to take my course, to finish getting all of this then. But I will try to wrap this up shortly. Let me just conclude by suggesting, that cultural competence is for everyone. It is something that historically a number of white people have said, “well that has something to do with people of color”, and well actually everyone has a part to play in cultural competence. Because not all white folks are just white, right? They have some sort of cultural background regardless of the fact that they may think that they don’t, they do, right? So for example I identify as African-American, however I certainly am not the same as, and I grew up in New York City, however my culture is very different than African American’s that grew up in San Francisco or that were raised in the southern part of the US, you see. So this is again, cultural competence is such a deep concept but it’s one that everyone needs to partake of, and to try to embrace. And this is the only way that our country and our global society will indeed go forward. And I will stop at that point.

Josh Fedwell: No worries, thank you very much Dr. Johnson, at this point I would like to open up the webinar to any questions that any individuals may have. Again you can use the Q&A chat box in the top right hand side, just type your questions in there and we’ll be able to see those questions and ask Dr. Johnson. And we’re getting a couple coming in, actually Dr. Johnson.

The first question is from one of the attendees that have asked, “Do you believe in diversity quotas for organizations or industries.

Dr. Johnson III: Oh that’s a great question, and I absolutely do not believe in diversity quotas, because what that does is it essentially let’s an organization off the hook. They will say, wow we’ve got an ‘x’ amount of people of color or we’ve got an x amount of women or we’ve got an x amount of LGBT folks or what have you, we’re good we don’t have to do any more.” So that’s the problem with diversity quotas. It’s just inappropriate and because what we do know from cultural competence and diversity is that this is ongoing. And we want to always make sure that there is a diverse workforce no matter what organization it is. And again it’s something that is ongoing and diversity quotas again, they are just opposite of that.


Josh Fedwell: Good Answer, thanks Dr. Johnson, we’ve got a similar question as well, and it’s can you create a diverse work force or should it actually come naturally?

Dr. Johnson III: Well that’s the million dollar question; I think that’s a good one. Certainly Silicone Valley organizations are facing that now, and perhaps a number of organizations around the country. You know, I believe that it is, first of all, the organization, regardless of whether it’s private or public or non-profit or what have you. They’ve got to have a desire to have a diverse work force. And with that comes with, what I call intentionality, in creating a diverse work force.

So for example, if an organization, I have a dear friend and colleague is a mail professor in the school of nursing in the University of San Francisco, and he loves his job he loves being a professor and he’s been there for many years as a professor. The students love him; however he is one of only a couple male professors in the school of nursing. The school of nursing has about probably fifty full time faculty and so in that instance, you know the school of nursing as to pay attention to bringing in male professors to help diversify their professorships and so I know that a number of colleagues would say, perhaps creating a diverse work force, should happen organically. And I don’t doubt that, however often times when you let something happen organically it doesn’t happen or it takes forever. And so therefore I suggest that, and I rest on the fact that there has to be the intentionality to create and maintain a diverse work force.


Josh Fedwell: Fantastic, thanks Dr. Johnson, we’ve actually got quite a number of questions coming through now, the next question is from Eric, and Eric asks what the biggest challenges with achieving cultural competence are?

Dr. Johnson III: Hi Eric, that’s a great question as well. There are actually a number of scholarships in creating cultural competence organization. One of which may very well stem from individuals who don’t feel that cultural competence is needed. So there is that classic pushback that will come from, what I call them, old guard. Those individuals who don’t want to see things change and are resistant to the fact that things are changing, and changing at, really, great speeds of light. So that’s one of the greatest obstacles. Is dealing with those, and trying to pull those individuals along, who are reminiscent of the 1950s and 60s; when so much of the work place was very sort of mono-racial.

And trying to pull them along, I think is one of the key obstacles. Certainly another obstacle would be funding. I say specifically funding; I talk about this in my research. Because organizations generally are expected in the 21st century, organizations generally have a point person that will lead that sort of “diverse efforts” right? It’s also what they are calling that person, a Vice President, or a Director of Diversity or Diversity Inclusion, we have that individual ourselves, Dr. Mary Waddell. She’s associate provost for diversity and inclusion I believe is her title. And that’s well and fine, however there has got to be a budget that goes with that. Right? Often times people in these positions are expected to do their jobs and create a cultural competent workforce on a shoe-string budget, or no budget at all and that is of course inappropriate because it takes money to make things work.

There’s an old line, I forgot which movie this came from, “show me the money” right? I’m sure some of you will remember that line.


But it’s true, because if in fact an organization is saying that cultural competence, diversity, social equity and the like, if these areas are important to us then we are going to put aside a substituent amount of money to try to make that happen, and if it doesn’t than again, it’s taught without much action.

Josh Fedwell: Fantastic, thanks Dr. Johnson we’ve got a detailed question here. It comes in from Kathleen. There are a couple of components to it, I’ll just read out the full question though. So what are some of the ways the federal government measures cultural competence in the organizations receiving federal funds, and do you think they work? The second part to that question is, how would you like to see cultural competence and intelligence measured?

Dr. Johnson III: Right, so, did you say Kathleen or Katherine?

Josh Fedwell: Kathleen

Dr. Johnson III: Kathleen, my favorite aunt’s name is Kathleen, so Kathleen your question is really a big question and it’s a powerful question, in that the federal government is still sorting out how to deal with cultural competence. They recognize that it’s important however; there isn’t a sort of systematic way to see it measured. Even though they may certainly be agencies whether they be at the federal, state or local levels, that have to report on a certain amount of diversity hires. There could be those types and there are those types of systems in place because then of course without them the agency wouldn’t receive public funding. But besides that there really isn’t anything else other than the sort of proverbial, you know, the organization has to have a hiring clause that says “we don’t’ discriminate on the basis of hiring”. Sort of those preverbal things, but again there isn’t a systematic way for doing this at the federal level, at least. I would actually like to see, and this is such a broad conversation to have about cultural competence when you’re dealing with, like let’s say the federal government, that’s such a large entity. I like would like to see a systematic way, created so that we can measure what’s going on in terms of specifically the workforce. I think that it would be challenging to measure cultural competence if you’re not talking about the federal work force or again the local or state work force. It would take some efforts. And I’m not quite sure how to get there as of yet. That’s a project that I’m actually undertaking, but again I do recognize that we’re talking about a massive rethinking. Which is what would need to happen?


But as mentioned earlier, in my presentation, a number of the individuals who are in the work force now will be retiring. And those individuals will be replaced by people of color. So that will happen automatically, however that’s still not to suggest that there is still a certain level of cultural competence. It’s just to suggest that these works are being replaced by, sort of ALANA individuals. But the misunderstanding is that just because someone is of color means that they have an understanding of cultural competence, and that is not the case at all, you know that’s a myth. Everyone can benefit from culture competent awareness, regardless of where they come from and their background. So the long and short of it, Kathleen is that we don’t have a systematic way to measure this yet, but it’s something that in fact Dr. Borrego and I are actually looking at. And we will present our findings and then we’ll go from there.

Josh Fedwell: Great, thank you Dr. Johnson, we might ask one more question, and then we’ll continue on with the second part of the webinar. So this question comes from Crystal, Crystal asks, I believe it’s in reference to one of your slides, professor Johnson, that showed a number of demographic breakdowns, the question is, your statistics on the graphic showed that an age of 63 were identified and then by 2050 the number changed to 58, could you expand on what that statistic implies? I think we can go back to the particular slide as well. I might just take us, I believe it was this slide,

Dr. Johnson III: Josh it was this one


Josh Fedwell: I believe it was this slide here. So I believe the question was referring to what the implications are here, for the working age representing 63% in 25 and reducing down to 58% in 2050.

Dr. Johnson III: Right, Josh, tell me which slide is that please, I’m not, want to make sure I’m looking at the right one.

Josh Fedwell: No worries, slide number eight, I’ve just pulled it up on the main screen, Dr. Johnson.

Dr. Johnson III: I want to get there quickly, so that I can respond to Crystal’s question, let’s see here. Ok so, Crystal’s question was about the demographics?

Josh Fedwell: Correct, yeah I’ll read the question out again. So the question was on this particular slide there in 2005 the working age was represented by 63% of the people yet by 2050 the numbers reduced to 58% could you expand on what this statistic implies?

Dr. Johnson III: Yes absolutely. Very astute question Crystal, this referenced the people who will be aging out of the work force essentially. And they’ll be a number of shifts happening of course, by 2050 again is what’s predicted. And so we will see people retiring at a much younger age. We’ll see this sort of great shift in what we know today as sort of the average working age to stay in the workforce or to leave the work force. So that’s basically what that statistic is telling us. And then certainly people will have second careers. And that’s sort of implied as well. So that’s basically what that’s talking about. Just sort of the shifts even within what again has typically the working age population, eighteen to sixty-four. You know, I mean it will be shifting a great deal.

Josh Fedwell: Great, thank you for expanding on that one Dr. Johnson. Ok well we might resume the presentation, and I’m going to move now to slide twenty seven now here, and I’m actually going to invite Dr. Loney into to give us a bit of an overview of the University of San Francisco, the School Of Management and obviously in particular the online MPA program. So Dr. Loney would you like to give us a bit of an overview of those three individual facets?


Dr. Timothy Loney: Sure, thanks Josh, you know over all we are a Jesuit university and as I think Dr. Johnson mentioned you know we’re located in the Bay Area, in San Francisco. Over all I think we have something like 12,000 students, we have a number of graduate programs, a number of graduate schools in education, nursing, law and of course we have the school of management. And in the school of management we have a number of management and finance degrees, a program in non-profit management, organization development and of course the MPA.

This particular program that we’re talking about today is a fully online program for an MPA degree, we obviously have a ground program as well, if students want to go that way. The program currently entails about thirty nine units and attendees today can see that graphically on the slide right now, with certain foundation courses, which are fairly a generic, and then we get into some certain core courses specializing in various areas, with a final inogrative semester.

The design of this curriculum and program is accredited on some national standards. We are a NASPA accredited university and as such need to meet their requirements. We offer this program three times a year, spring, summer and fall semesters. And let’s see what else can I say, oh, we have a very experienced faculty, as far as I know all of our full time faculty have either doctoral degrees or law degrees. Almost all of them are also experienced practitioners. One of whom our current chair was the chief of police for San Francisco, some have been city managers, city or county attorneys, administrative managers, some have managed non-profit health programs. So we have quite a bit of experience, let’s see Josh what do you think is that enough to cover it in general or should I do something else?


Josh Fedwell: Yeah, that’s fantastic Dr. Loney thank you. Yeah we’ve actually just had a question come through about the online program as well. Somebody’s asking around the number of hours to study. How many hours a week do you devote or would you suggest to devote to study?

Dr. Timothy Loney: Yeah, you know that’s a good question. In general I think we would say somewhere in the range of fifteen to twenty hours per week. It really, you know, it’s a great degree it also depends on the experiences and the skill sets and competencies of the student coming into the program. Certain courses may take more time than others, again depending on the prior experience or the student. If the student for example is coming in already working in a budget and finance field has been a practitioner for a number of years, probably perhaps less time than another course.

So again, roughly twenty to fifteen hours, I’ve had students suggest that they’ve taken longer, primarily because this is an opportunity for them, while they’re here in a two year program, one would want to take advantage of that program and like the old cliché, and you get out of it whatever you put into it. So this is an opportunity, like I say, to take advantage of unique access to a lot of resources, bout in terms of the insights of the faculty as well as the other resources that we provide students through the courses, both in terms of text books and access to other speakers, YouTubes, webinars, opportunity like we have today to deal with Dr. Johnson on specialized kinds of topics.

Josh Fedwell: Fantastic thanks Dr. Loney, ok. That about concludes the end of today’s presentation, I would like to let everyone know that if you are interested in our upcoming around next intake for the online MPA program our summer application deadline is March 15, so it’s about four weeks away, with classes starting on May 23rd. And look, if you do have any further questions obviously about the program, about the applications process please by all accounts reach out to Ixchelle Hicks; Ixchelle is our dedicated enrollment advisor for this particular program. She knows the program inside and out and would be more than happy to help you with your application program. Her email address and her phone number, her direct line I should say with extension are on the screen right there. But that about concludes today’s webinar, I would like to send a very special thank you to yourself Dr. Loney, and of course to you Dr. Johnson, for the special presentation on Managing Diversity in today’s Workplace. So thank you both very much.


Dr. Johnson III: Thank you and thank you to you Josh and to the attendees, it was a pleasure.

Dr. Timothy Loney: Thanks Josh, thank you and also for the attendees today. You know I work very closely with Ixchelle and there’s you know, special questions or ways in which I can be of resource to them, with regard to the program I’m happy to do that.

Josh Fedwell: Thank you.

Dr. Johnson III: Josh, you were going to mention the Social Equity Leadership conference, I believe.

Josh Fedwell: My apologies, yes I was too, my apologies Dr. Johnson. Yes so one of the interesting things the University of San Francisco are doing later this year is a Social Equity Leadership conference. And we’ve actually got the pleasure, ladies and gentlemen of speaking of the chair of the conference here today, that would be Dr. Johnson. So Dr. Johnson would you like to tell us a little bit more about the conference?

Dr. Johnson III: Sure, thanks Josh, just a very quickly the Social Equity Leadership conference, is a conference that has been going on for the last twenty-five years or so. And this year the University of San Francisco has the pleasure and privilege of hosting the national conference on campus, June 1st through the 3rd. And we will be having upwards of sixty presenters or so over the three day period. We have other outstanding Social Equity speakers that will be attending and will be participating.


And the conference is open to anyone who is interested in this particular topic, whether it is a scholar or a community worker or just someone who wants to come to San Francisco and learn more about social equity. You’re all invited and there’s a link on the web, you can just google, Social Equity Leadership conference at the University of San Francisco 2016. And certainly there will be a number of our faculty there that will also be a way for you to learn more about the MPA program and so forth. So it just would be an outstanding organization and we’re planning for a good time.

Josh Fedwell: Fantastic, sounds like it’s going to be a great conference Dr. Johnson, so we wish you all the best for it, and obviously and the school of Management at the University of San Francisco as well.

Dr. Johnson III: Thank you Josh, we’re looking forward to it. A lot of hard work going into it, but it will be well worth it. And it’s the first time the conference will be on the West coast. And so we are super excited that USF has the opportunity to be the first host of the conference on the west coast.

Josh Fedwell: Fantastic, we ____ that’s wonderful. Ok, thank you very much ladies and gentlemen, we appreciate your time. And enjoy the rest of your Wednesday afternoon. Thanks all bye.


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